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filtering in I'm interested in I don't

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know if the transitioning is the good

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part or the profit come in Garrett's

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work just before you do some basic

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research and your transition to clinical

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data and that's the way I think we've

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conventionally thought of of the way

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research goes I'm not sure how much that

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applies I think a couple of slides from

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now I have the possibility that in

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healing arts and I investigate the

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energy healing I guess that oftentimes

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it goes in the opposite direction that

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we see something clinically and then we

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try to figure out what what happens

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there are a number of people in this

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room who are experimentalists I consider

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myself among them and there are a number

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of people in this room who are

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clinicians and I consider myself among

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them so I've played in the in the

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healing arts and the energy healing arts

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in an experimental camp I've played on

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in the clinical camp so I've been on

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both I guess I'm bipolar I don't know so

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I've been on booked yet on the

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borderline schizophrenic but bipolar and

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so I played it in both sides and

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probably in my own history I started by

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observing clinical phenomena of healing

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and then I I tried to take it into the

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lab and figure out what's behind it so I

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guess in a perverse sense I've been

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going into the lab to try to figure out

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how I do what I already know how to do I

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don't know how else to put that so the

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clinical stuff comes naturally the

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experimental work is really interesting

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but those people who are not bipolar

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I've come into some interesting

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circumstances where clinical people

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really think clinically and

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experimentalists really think

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experimentally and and the twins don't

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meet and and just as a quick

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illustration a friend of mine who's an

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internist an MD internist practicing

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internist and he's trying to give up

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medicine to become a healer which i

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think is pretty interesting and so I

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introduced him to another person that I

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know who used to be a pediatric

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oncologist who had given that up ten

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years ago in is a healer and so they're

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going the route from conventionally

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medical training to healing the healing

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arts energy healing arts smite

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introduced a two of them but I had a

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very instructive meeting a couple years

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ago with the the first guy the internist

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and he in he came to me he said well I'm

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aware of some of your publications and

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some of your data and all these other

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kinds of things and and what what are

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the techniques you use when you do your

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experiments what what how do you heal so

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I started going through here's a

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technique one here's a technique to

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here's a technique three here's a

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technique for and I'm and I'm doing it

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with all the conventional experimental

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caveats and those included I don't have

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a clue what works so I don't know if I'm

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using four techniques and I'm throw in

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the kitchen sink at a healing problem I

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don't know what works and you know in a

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similar way that that how do I pass out

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there's technique one compliment detract

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from I don't know and and he looked at

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me with a complete straight face this is

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a MD and he said what's the difference

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and then we just stared at each other

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and I had nothing to say and after a

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long astonished pause I said that's what

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matters I need to find out what's behind

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all this stuff and I realized that I

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can't just be a clinician it would drive

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me nuts and I don't know how to parse

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out clinical effects so Alistair's

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talked before I'm sitting there thinking

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oh and the questions that people were

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asking and you said I you know I don't

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know what works how do you get this

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product it's a it's a very complicated

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world to live in

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so I'm bipolar and I live in both worlds

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and and I'd like to to talk about some

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experimental data some clinical

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applications and then this actually

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turns out to be ten years since I first

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gave a presentation on energy healing

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the first time ever did it was that ten

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years ago at an SSE meeting in

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Albuquerque and at that time I had done

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for research lab experiments on cancer

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by this time I'm up to many more than

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that

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and I think I've learned some things and

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I want to kind of sum it up and I want

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to sum it up with the balance between

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experimental and clinical you see how

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that goes so my question here

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I don't read from slides which comes

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first data or clinical application it's

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probably oftentimes it's clinical

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experience so probably even the title of

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my talk is a little off

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it doesn't necessarily go from

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experimental data to clinical

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application if we're doing anomalies

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research of course things are more

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complicated because we're going from

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unexplained phenomenon to trying to make

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something that presumably if there's

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clinical application it predictably

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works so we got unknown compounded with

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who knows how many variables and trying

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to make something work in the real

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clinical application so I'd like to

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summarize a little bit from my energy

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energy healing work on cancer and I

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break it down alright I'd like to think

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in these terms what is it that I know

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with reasonable certainty what do I

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think I know with some uncertainty what

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don't I understand well at all and

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basically what am i clueless about and I

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assure you in a whole bunch of research

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that the dominant place that I am is the

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last two categories I don't know much

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with reasonable certainty I don't know

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that much with a little bit of

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uncertainty I am still mystified every

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time I do an experiment most of my

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hypotheses that I generate don't come

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out the way I expect it indicates to me

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that I probably don't have a handle on

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the mechanisms of healing and such and

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so it's a really complicated problem but

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it's also pretty interesting so what I'd

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like to do is give seven propositions in

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decreasing order of certainty

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I'm really very reasonably certain about

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the first I'll be less certain about the

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second and when I get down to the

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seventh I'm going you know that kind of

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thing so on the first one proposition

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one cancer can be cured using energy

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healing I haven't

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experimental evidence I have clinical

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evidence I got a pile of evidence now

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the interesting thing is I began this

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research as a skeptic

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and so I really stand before you as a

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failed skeptic and the evidence has

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overwhelmed me and it's overwhelming

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clinically and it's overwhelmed me

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experimentally and here's the

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interesting thing

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since I'm constantly amazed I think it

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really means I'm still a skeptic and I

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think that's a good place to be every

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time something happens in a lab I guess

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every time something happens clinically

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I gasp which means I don't I don't sit

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completely comfortably with this stuff

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yet I have to follow the data and I have

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to follow my experience and if my data

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are eventually proven right terrific if

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they're eventually proven wrong I can

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live with that etc etc so I'm reasonably

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certain now very reasonably certain that

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cancer can be cured using energy healing

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and so I give a couple of examples here

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from first experimental data some people

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have seen a couple of these slides

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before I've dealt with traditional

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mammary cancers from the Jackson labs

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they have predictable lifespans and

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maximum lifespans after transplantation

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or injection and what's supposed to

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happen in these this particular mouse

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model that would be the mouse is that

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the tumor is non-metastatic it grows

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it's pretty simple to measure gets

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larger and larger and eventually the

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tumor basically simply crushes the

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animal it's it not a good way to go it

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dies of malnutrition or some combination

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here's how you heal you get an

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exceedingly good-looking person that's

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step one so I'm giving away the store

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here you know so write this down get an

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exceedingly good-looking person and and

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what you do is you said this is these

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are experiments I did at Indiana

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University med school I've done this in

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five different places to medical schools

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and sites so you sit there now it looks

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like I'm meditating so we've heard about

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meditation and such I assure you I'm not

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I'm really bored to tears there's almost

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nothing worse than healing

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it's boring I don't get rushes of bliss

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or anything like that

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sit I usually sit there going how did my

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life come to this yeah I mean it's a

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Dacian

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and so I'm sitting there go please make

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it stop you know make the clock go

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faster so I'm going I'm doing relatively

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mechanical techniques they don't involve

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belief of any sort they don't give you

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again rushes of insight or anything like

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that you don't go I'll just leave it at

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that and and so I sit with them for a

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specific length of time if you do that

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and you use the techniques that I've

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used you get this kind of a pattern the

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tumor grows and that was my first

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surprise the tumor then gets a necrotic

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blackened area on its surface how's my

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second surprise the tumor that ulcerates

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that was my third and then it implodes

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to full cure and so I'm gonna show you a

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couple of pictures this is this is

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indicating days after injection or

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and so you get the beginning of an

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ulceration you get a large L serration